“That’s the deal . . ., that’s what I keep seeing again and again and again . . . where these senior people [at CDC] just do completely unethical, vile things and no one holds them accountable.”
— Dr. William Thompson to Dr. Brian Hooker in a recorded phone call, June 12, 2014
William Thompson, Ph.D., CDC eipidemiologist
It’s been almost a year since we first heard the name Dr. William Thompson, a senior epidemiologist at the CDC, and “whistleblower” in the same sentence. On August 27, 2014, Dr. Thompson released a shocking statement via his attorneys, Morgan Verkamp, whistleblower specialists, admitting that he and colleagues at the CDC “omitted statistically significant information” from a 2004 Pediatrics study regarding the timing of the MMR vaccine and autism which showed that African-American boys were much more likely to be diagnosed with autism if they received the MMR “on time” (before 36 months) than matched controls. When trying to get this story out, as mainstream media looked the other way, our community faced a tidal wave of astroturfing on Facebook pages, Twitter and media sites. Bloggers and “shills” sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry quickly moved to hijack and reframe this incredible story, branding it with their favorite word: “debunked.” Their aim was to provide enough obfuscation and distraction that the masses wouldn’t listen to us “anti-vaxers” (Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says of anti-vaxers, “When you hear the term ‘anti-vaxers’ you should think ‘parents of disabled children.’” Disclosure: I vaccinated all of my children, one is vaccine injured.) And it worked. We have yet to see a mainstream media outlet seriously consider Dr. Thomson’s allegations of fraud at the CDC.
But this story won’t go away, despite the best efforts of an incredibly persistent, well-oiled and well-heeled propaganda machine.
Last August, we heard snippets of calls (between Dr. Brian Hooker, a vaccine researcher and father of an autistic child, and Dr. Thompson, author and co-author of three major CDC studies that “exonerate” vaccines of any role in the epidemic of autism. In his soon-to-be released book, Vaccine Whistleblower: Exposing Autism Research Fraud at the CDC, Kevin Barry Esq., himself the father of a child with autism and former president of Generation Rescue, finally reveals the transcripts of four calls, the only ones recorded, of the more than 30 that took place between Drs. Hooker and Thompson.
Brian Hooker, Ph.D.
November 2013, Dr. Thompson reached out to Dr. Hooker, whom he had known from various interactions in the years 2002-2004. Dr. Thompson had finally decided to “blow his whistle” by telling Dr. Hooker what he knew about CDC corruption, saying, “I basically have stopped lying.” He had hired one of the best whistleblower attorneys in the country, and he was ready to take the heat for exposing the truth about vaccine fraud at the CDC: “So I have to deal with a few months of hell if all this becomes public, um, no big deal. I’m not having to deal with a child who is suffering day in and day out.”
The transcript calls took place from May 8 – July 28, 2014 and are shocking to read, so shocking, in fact, that it’s almost hard to believe what you are seeing: non-stop jaw-dropping testimony, which should, if investigated thoroughly, change the course of history.
In his preface, Dr. Boyd E. Haley, a professor of chemistry who has testified at past Institute of Medicine (IOM) meetings on Thimerosal toxicity, urges every pediatrician in the country to read the transcripts and encourages an immediate investigation by Congress, supporting the assertion that vaccine safety warrants a thorough review based on the claims of Dr. Thompson.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr., co-author of Thimerosal, Let the Science Speak, wrote the eloquent foreword to the book. His tone has a sense of urgency and incredulity at the myriad conflict-of-interest and corruption issues in the vaccine safety industry, in which the U.S. government is inextricably entangled, in particular in relation to Thimerosal. He calls out the U.S. media silence and deems the media complicit in this fraud due to its financial ties to the pharmaceutical industry: “Reporters simply parrot the talking points of corrupt public health regulators and vaccine industry spokesmen.” Mr. Kennedy’s foreword is a scathing attack on the CDC and journalism in America and is a huge wake up call for the nation.
Barry’s introduction sets the scene with important background information, explaining Dr. Hooker’s involvement in this scandal and the extraordinary circumstances of how the events of August 2014 played out. He then gives an executive summary of the main points of each call which serves as a launchpad for what is to come. The following four chapters reveal the transcripts in their entirety, without the author’s narrative. The remaining chapters in the book contain Barry’s interpretation of the magnitude of the information which Thompson has revealed and urges the country’s leaders to push for a congressional investigation of the ~100,000 pages of evidence that Thompson has handed over to Rep. Bill Posey’s office. One of Posey’s staffers described the documents as a “wildfire” that “could burn the CDC to its foundations.”
Though the recordings were legally done, Dr. Thompson did not know he was being recorded; therefore, he speaks quite freely and is uninhibited. He tells Dr. Hooker what he thinks about his superiors at the CDC and other agency employees quite candidly, saying things like “People that have been my supervisors have broken laws.” It is surely everyone’s worst nightmare to be exposed in this way, but after reading the transcripts, I can understand Dr. Hooker’s intent in recording their conversations. The core subject matter is too important as our children’s lives are truly at stake.
On the calls, Dr. Thompson tries to give Dr. Hooker as much information as he can about the inner workings of the CDC so he can understand how the CDC has managed to maintain this fraud for so long with impunity: “I want to be a resource. I want to be valuable to you. I want you to have someone in the system that can give you feedback.” We begin to see very quickly how the CDC has become a “cesspool of corruption,” as Robert F. Kennedy Jr. repeatedly describes it.
Dr. Thompson tries to guide Dr. Hooker in the best way to “fix this” – meaning getting Thimerosal out of vaccines, primarily the flu vaccine. He suggests that Dr. Hooker start a campaign away from autism as a side effect, due to the radioactivity of the topic, and focus on tics. As the book explains, in a 2001 IOM (closed door) Committee Meeting, it seemed already predetermined that autism would never be associated with vaccines in their findings: “. . . we are not ever going to come down that (autism) is a true side effect.” The IOM’s report released in 2004 essentially declaring that vaccines do not cause autism (supporting the CDC position) and that funds should be directed away from such research, was contemptible at best and criminal at worst. The IOM is a private entity, and their opinion influences government agency policies and sways public perception. The IOM shutting the door on further research and declaring the science settled will prove to future historians to be a watershed moment in this crisis. As Dr. Hooker said in relation to a different circumstance but is no less relevant here, “What could be more anti-science than to exclude a line of scientific enquiry?” Because of this diversion of research, Thompson states, “The CDC has put the research ten years behind. Because the CDC has not been transparent, we’ve missed ten years of research because the CDC is so paralyzed right now by anything related to autism.”
Dr. Thompson advises Dr. Hooker to focus on a mantra regarding tics because, as he states,“I can say that pretty confidently, vaccines cause tics. We replicated that.” The replication study was “Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years.” He then suggests the “mantra” should switch to “. . . (and) tics are four times as common among kids with autism,” and “There is biologic plausibility right now, I really do believe there is, to say that Thimerosal causes autism-like features.” (emphasis added). You might want to read that line again.
Amazingly, “tics” is not listed as a table injury with the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. Thompson expresses his incredulity at that because, as he says, the science is clear; the CDC itself has replicated the finding with other studies. Incidentally, in relation to Thimerosal, Dr. Thompson reveals that some rat studies involving Thimerosal “showed that thimerosal (sic) had a differential effect on males and females” and that “they got to a certain level (of increasing the dose) and all the male rats died,” possibly explaining the “male effect,” the fact that autism occurs about four times more often in males than females.
But we may have a new effect – the “born-with-it” effect. Thompson says of the flu shot, “I don’t know why they still give it to pregnant women, like that’s the last person I would give mercury to . . . I would never give my wife a vaccine that I thought caused tics.” Dr. Thompson seems incredulous at this, and can only suggest the reason is “that the drug companies think that if it is in at least that one vaccine then no one could argue that it should be out of the other vaccines outside of the US.” That’s a rather horrific possibility to be sure, but another equally horrific possibility with more local ramifications is that giving mercury to pregnant women would mask any changes in autism rates that might occur due to mercury removal from other childhood vaccines.
The all-important 2004 MMR study is discussed in great detail throughout the calls. Of this paper, Thompson says, “I was complicit, and I went along with this, we did not report significant findings . . . I have great shame now when I meet families with kids with autism because I have been part of the problem.” This paper was the only study of the three autism studies that Dr. Thompson co-authored that didn’t have an external panel of consultants (Dr. Thompson: “Just so you understand this, we didn’t have an external review panel . . . for the MMR autism one.”), which was how, Dr. Thompson claims, they were able to deviate from the original analysis plan, which he retained copies of without anyone’s knowledge.
The significant findings related to the “race effect,” which they discussed at great length. Dr. Hooker discusses the statistical analyses with regard to the race effect with Dr. Thompson so he can be sure that what he was finding was accurate. Dr. Thompson confirmed that he and his co-authors found a statistically significant increased risk of autism for African-American boys who received the MMR on time. He says that they had meetings to discuss this issue. Dr. Hooker asks Dr. Thompson what was discussed, and he would only say, “There is a specific quote about this very finding that will be etched in my head for life. I’m not going to tell you it. . . . It was by one of the other coauthors.”
Representative Bill Posey (R-FL)
In the end, they just decided to omit data by eliminating those who did not have a Georgia birth certificate (presumably the poorest children in the sample), even though it was a deviation from the study plan. He alludes to the now infamous “garbage can meeting,” where the co-authors colluded to destroy federal documents relating to the study: “Literally everyone else got rid of all their documents so the only documents that exist right now from that study are mine . . . it was the five of us behind closed doors for 2 years.”
Dr. Thompson also gives insight into media hype of outbreaks of measles in the U.S. and polio in third-world countries : “These drug companies and their promoters, they’re making such a big deal of these measles outbreaks. It’s like a never ending thing where the press loves to hype it and it scares people.” Coincidentally, a few months later, that same media-hype scenario played out after a measles outbreak that began at the California Disneyland theme park. What ensued was an unrelenting media blitz about the importance of vaccines, specifically the MMR. That campaign can be directly tied to the hundreds of vaccine bills entered in state legislatures all over the country, recently resulting in California children losing their right to personal belief exemptions to vaccinations in a new law which violates both international human rights law as well as the First Amendment to the Constitution. More recently, in New York State a bill was introduced, unusually out of session, which proposes eliminating all religious exemptions across the state, a state that is already among the most vaccinated with a 99% vaccination rate per the CDC. And all this because 117 people got a fever and a rash, most of whom were adults, and many of whom were vaccinated! To this day, no source for the outbreak has ever been established by the CDC. And, interestingly, the measles rate so far for 2015 is significantly lower than 2014, and running about even with 2013. In a sane world, the Thompson transcripts would serve to put a stop to all pending legislation until further investigations can be conducted, due to the severity of the risk to our children.
Dr. Thompson then brings Dr. Hooker’s attention to the SEED project, which he refers to as “Disneyland” (of data), and how this data set contains the health records of some 1200 children, 800 of which are confirmed autistic, with complete vaccination records, including prenatal vaccines and RhoGAM shots. This data has yet to be released to the public for study. In fact, according to Dr. Thompson, “it is under lock and key.” However, as Dr. Thompson says, “So far there is about sixty proposals in, um, for people ready to do studies. Not a single one of them looks at vaccines, not one!” He is clearly outraged by this when he recounts how he asked his colleagues “What are you going to say when you have twelve hundred autism cases and a bunch of controls and you never looked at vaccines and you have all their vaccine records?” Dr. Thompson describes the SEED data as a “. . . gold mine. That’s the mother-load of mother-loads (sic). Because it doesn’t matter what Insel does.” He is referring to the promise Thomas Insel, chairman of the Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee, made to Rep. Bill Posey in a congressional hearing that took place on May 20, 2014, that a study comparing health outcomes of vaccinated children with those of unvaccinated children would be done. It has not been done. Interestingly, according to Thompson, “The CDC was invited to testify [at that hearing] and they declined” and “. . . Coleen (Boyle) said that she would never go and testify again.”
The discussion about SEED develops further into who should NOT get access to the data, specifically Autism Speaks, according to Barry, due to conflict of interests and their stated conviction that “vaccines do not cause autism.” There is an entire chapter in the book dedicated to these conflicts, which lays bare the incredible history of the organization and why we should never again trust Autism Speaks with research grants for autism-related studies. In fact, on the back cover of the book, an email from Autism Speaks’ founder Bob Wright to an undisclosed person is quoted as saying, “We all know that the child vaccine program has significantly increased and that there are some children who will be affected. Predicting who is the ongoing challenge for the CDC and the FDA.”
The transcripts reveal so much malfeasance, corruption and misuse of government resources, it’s hard to comprehend how it has remained hidden for so long. Dr. Thompson talks about watering down discussions on studies with “whitewashed comments.” He describes many instances of breaking study protocols in a number of studies he worked on. He talks scathingly about wanted fugitive and co-author of numerous autism studies, Poul Thorsen, and his former CDC-employed girlfriend, indicating massive conflicts of interest. He tells Dr. Hooker about possible Verstraeten study anomalies regarding specialty clinics in the study, which led Thompson to say, “My guess is they put that adjustment in there because they didn’t like what they were finding.” He also describes the atmosphere in the agency at that time as related to the overall influence of corporations in the federal government, “The federal government is hostile to anyone who says anything negative about any industry.”
On July 29, 2015, Congressman Bill Posey made a statement in the House of Representatives, asking, begging, and imploring the house leaders to call a congressional hearing to investigate the CDC for alleged fraud. Dr. Thompson stated in the transcripts that he had sent Rep. Posey 100,000 pages of documents. In his statement, Posey read a statement from Dr. Thompson that says, “The co-authors scheduled a meeting to destroy documents related to the study. The remaining four co-authors all met and brought a big garbage can into the meeting room and reviewed and went through all the hard copy documents that we had thought we should discard and put them in a huge garbage can. However, because I assumed that it was illegal and would violate both FOIA [Freedom of Information Act] and DOJ [Department of Justice] requests, I kept hard copies of all documents in my office, and I retain all associated computer files.”
In these transcripts, we get a glimpse into Dr. Thompson as a person for the first time since his name and “CDC fraud” became synonymous. He and Dr. Hooker struck up a kind of awkward and unlikely friendship – the guilt-ravaged CDC fraudster who was coming clean and the persecuted autism researcher whose only agenda was vindication for his severely autistic son. Dr. Thompson seemed terribly conflicted about what he knew and what to do with it. It is clear that he was under an incredible amount of stress and “lost it” a lot with his colleagues. He predicts that the CDC will paint him as “crazy,” and that’s how they will dismiss his claims. However, it may not matter in the long run what his co-authors say to try and tarnish his credibility if Thompson’s documents show that they did indeed commit fraud as employees of an agency that is charged with safeguarding the health and safety of our children. Rep. Posey’s office has those documents.
Every mother and father in America should be asking their local representatives (to take action, click here. Note that you may edit the sample letter to express your personal sentiments) to support Rep. Posey in calling for a congressional hearing and demand those documents be released to the public. We must finally know the truth from the gatekeepers of the federal vaccine safety program at the CDC. Dr. Thompson has stated that there are still “more questions than answers” with regard to vaccines and autism. This is critical. Parents of vaccine-injured children deserve answers and, more importantly, an apology for the suffering their children are enduring, or have endured in death, while the purveyors of corruption sit high on the trash heap of malfeasance that is the CDC.
To quote Bobby Kennedy Jr. at the NO ON SB277 rally in Sacramento, California on April 8, 2015, “All of the barriers that are meant to protect our children: the government, the lawyers, the regulatory agencies and the press – the checks and balances in our democratic system that are supposed to stand between corporate power and our little children have been removed . . . and there’s only one barrier left and that’s the parents. . . . And we need to keep them in the equation.”
Indeed we do.
~ ShamROCK
For more by ShamROCK, click here.
I am only just learning about all of this after my curiosity was peaked when the TriBeCa Film Festival wouldn’t show Robert De Niros documentary he worked on!! My son has autism. If I had been aware of the true risk of all these vaccines (I asked many doctors), I never would have allowed it. I feel like people are being manipulated by fear, to vaccinate. This is not the land of the free. This country strictly belongs to the very wealthy corporations. Thank you for posting this article and adding the links. I hope more people at least start talking about this and really start learning about how corrupt our medical industry has become.
Just wanted to correct one thing: Robert De Niro did’t work on the film, he merely selected it for the festival. He obviously has personal reasons for wanting it to be viewed, but that isn’t because he worked on it.
Yes, the suppression of the film at Tribeca, and elsewhere was a serious issue. What it tells me is that the establishment does not have the capacity to stand up to the questions being raised. Had they responded in a more open manner, then I might have thought that there was less of a problem here. However, the tone of the pro CDC lobby (I won’t call them the Pro Vaccine as their dishonesty is actually injuring the reputation of vaccination), with their refusal to address questions raised, their insistence that something is debunked (when often it is clear that their side has not even properly read that which is supposedly de-bunked) their capacity to generate one post then repeat it across multiple websites, and their utter refusal to address the serious charges that have been successfully brought against Big Pharma for many very serious and devastating errors (Vioxx, Avandia, Suicides linked to SSRI antdepressants) all point to a lobby group that is not prepared to address questions raised in a mature and balanced way.
Every time I see another article that says “XXXXX debunked”- all I can think is that the author is trying to manipulate me with the authoritative way in which he makes this statement.
In short the US is a nation that prides itself as a democracy- but it has to realise that the encouragement of peaceful expression of dissenting views and mature argument around those views is an essential feature of a mature democracy.
Preventing important films from being seen (and Vaxxed is important, whether you agree with what is said or not) at an event like Tribeca is not what I would expect of a mature democracy.
Well said!
And the shills are still going strong! Pushing the agenda of Big Pharma on all the news stories, Truth in Media and parenting sites too. Whompingwilllow is going hard on Babycenter, she is the same Teacozy on mothering, they know she is working with Dorit and still let her post away! She can be found on FB as Annabel Evangeline, pushing the words of Orca, Lazarus, Deer and the rest of them.
” Bloggers and “shills” sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry quickly moved to hijack and reframe this incredible story, branding it with their favorite word: “debunked.” ”
THIS IS TRUE
I just spent 2 days replying to a post on metabunk.org/mandatory-vaccines-for-veterans.t6996/ explaining to veterans how the PENDING senate bill will ensure that the CDC’s vaccine experimentation pool will be enlarged to include Veterans treated at the VA. I went back in today and the entire dialogue is GONE. It is back to the same original post with the same original replies of “that can’t be true”.
LOL I had NO IDEA these sites were monitored and edited that way.
This is what I wrote that was taken down:
RE MANDATORY VS VOLUNTARY having to do with Veteran Benefits
The military would likely NEVER come up with a rule saying that Veterans have to subject themselves to a specific recommended immunization schedule in order to receive medical treatment from the VA.
The US Government TRAINED these people and know that these – mostly men – know how to go to war.
However, if they say — DOCTORS at the VA HAVE to give out immunizations according to a set schedule they are legislating the DOCTORS and NOT the Veterans.
There are less Doctors. They control the income of those doctors and so putting the pressure on THEM is a much easier approach.
Therefore, yes, you are correct, the law would not mandate veterans to be immunized. It would mandate DOCTORS to immunize vets.
Thank you for putting all of this info into one concise document.
Well written! and very very appreciated.
I agree with Shamrock – I hope he is SAFE.
To all of you Christians out there –
Shall we agree in prayer?
Dear God,
Please help us in our fight against this evil.
We need your hand to guide us because it will take MIRACLES for the walls of money, greed and corruption to come down but we believe it can happen.
We pray for and remember the the injured, the destroyed and the dead.
Amen
I agree that prayer is urgently needed here. This battle is not just against flesh and blood. Evil is stealing and destroying our young children and their families. The walls of secrecy and protection of the CDC will need to be brought down through action, but considering the vast scope of the deception, prayer will be the most powerful tool.
Thanks.
I’m not American, but as I read about this latest scandal, I am struck foremost by the thought of history repeating itself for the umpteenth time.
Remember what happened when the “FDA Nine” blew the whistle? Nothing. FDA execs stayed in their jobs, do not appear to have been prosecuted and the FDA continues to behave exactly as it has always done. Meanwhile, several of the Nine, under Whistleblower protection, got “protected” out of their jobs and at least two but more probably three constitutional amendments were violated by the FDA in its actions against them.
Long before that, there was a congressional hearing concerning the FDA’s treatment of Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski in which the FDA Commissioner was evasive and dishonest about the endless series of indictments brought against Burzynski by the FDA – each a failure, but which didn’t stop the FDA from doing it again and again – seven times, I think. And in the meantime, NCI and a former protege of Burzynski were poaching patents on Burzynski’s antineoplastons and in addition, the NCI was skewing clinical trials of antineoplastons. Prosecutions or removal of FDA execs from their jobs? Not a chance.
So that’s what you’re up against – yet again. There’s a helluva lot of power behind all this corruption. I predict the Thompson documents and the investigations will accomplish Sweet Fanny Adams. There’ll be no CDC execs fired and there’ll be no prosecutions. And Thompson could finish up dead and they’ll call it suicide or a random shooting, or something equally preposterous.
Thank you Kerry. It is a huge industry with a corrupt foundation. It seems to be ingrained in the culture. The vaccine program has become to big to fail, too big a lie to confront. I have the same fears as you but what’s different in this case is the groundswell of public awareness and social media sharing of the information. We have access to the evidence of the fraud and this, I hope, will give them pause for concern. We are not letting this go. They will fear their opponents who have nothing to lose – and that’s where we are at. We will not go away or be silenced if if Dr. Thompson were unable to testify. Talking about the issue will hopefully keep him safe.
There is virtually nothing to be found on the FDA 9 or on whistleblowers within the FDA as of 10 February 2016- using 2 different search engines.
Great article! Thanks for writing Shamrock. I have emailed and snail mailed all of my congressmen. Rattle Cages. Be Heard. This is our chance
xoxo
Thank you Michelle. Keep writing and sharing!
Great article! Thank you! I’ll ask the local library system to buy the book.
Thank you Kayla!
Has anyone put pressure on the AAP / Journal Pediatrics to retract the 2004 study given these revelations? Put them on the spot. I agree–all documents should be made public. I thought that by Posey introducing them on the House floor, they would become part of the public record?
Yep. There was a petition circulating last fall with that intent.
All of the documents need to be published, posted on the internet for the whole world to see. Go all wikileaks on the CDC. This will be the only way to stop this corruption. Put them all in jail.
OMG, I pray nothing happens to these “Whistleblowers” given the alternative health doctors that have either gone missing or been found dead! Hats off to these guys for their courage. I am grateful to them for making an effort, I pray it does some good!
Researcher, I totally agree with your comments!
I will continue to post this to my personal and business FB sites, twitter, etc. Wake up sheeple!!!
Thank you Jann. The whole world knows who Dr. Thompson is by now so I hope that will keep him safe. This is why we continue to write about this, to keep the story alive. Dr. Thompson has a lawyer and has handed over documents to Rep. Posey’s office so he has done all the right things. The CDC don’t have to do anything until subpoenaed so there’s a long road ahead. There is another option – if a mainstream media outlet investigates this and blows the story wide open, then things might start to happen. But that’s very unlikely I’m sad to say. Never give up! We need a congressional hearing, call your local reps!
My question is, why does this have to go through Congressional Hearings at all? Why can’t Thompson and Posey bring the documents (or copies) to a reporter, such as Sheryl Atkkisson or Alyson Camerota? Or both? Why not call a press conference, publicize the documents, and THEN let Congress scramble to pick up the pieces?
Isn’t begging a corrupt government for a congressional hearing on government/industry fraud rather like begging the the 1942 German government to hold a hearing on what had really been going on in the last decade?
Why are we still playing by government rules when the government has participated in fraud?
I’m not asking that with the intent to incite rebellion, I’m asking in all honesty, as this just does not make sense to me.
It’s a great question. I wonder how much Sharyl Attkisson knows already. Certainly, changing policies at the CDC has to come through Congress because they make the laws, but I don’t know why she couldn’t publish the papers.
I guess that’s exactly what we’re dealing with. There is truly too much at stake. This is a worldwide issue let’s not forget. This is a national security issue as well as a domestic one. Faith in the vaccine program is paramount and protecting it at all costs is what makes it too big to fail. Because there has been no federal response and because States continue to push more vaccine mandates through, shows that this is not going to be something that we can make happen very easily. I do think if we all contact the house speakers that we can get some attention. A press conference is not as effective. Sharyl and Alyson know about this book but I don’t have any info beyond that.
Fabulous article. I hope this comes to light (mainstream media) before my children are barred from public school in my state. The ignorance of people is very tiresome.
Thanks you Leah. I’m afraid it’s going to take time and all we can do is keep doing what we’re doing. There’s no easy answer to this.